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U.S. Senator Mike Crapo (R-ID) talks about the Solar Roadways: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPaA_P7KTEg
Mar 21 2012 by SRGuy
dfsf
Feb 9 2012 by stella.s.jang
Idahobill -- it's all well and nice to think that our government should stay out of the way of things, but history suggests our country has had such success BECAUSE government was there. Historically, we've used government to build roads, canals, and eventually railways and airports. That transportation sector would not have been there to any substantial degree without the 'government' so popularly mocked by certain political parties these days. The railroads were effectively given both the land and the tacit monopolies for their development -- our land given away to the 'private' sector for their exclusive use. That gave rise to the railroad barons. Steel barons made substantial money off of unregulated resource gathering, labor practices that effectively enslaved their work force. That new technology had as its biggest customer the state and federal governments of this country. Win-win, one may say -- unless you weren't upper management. But it did greatly accelerate the economic potential of our country and allow for expansion of our industrial and agricultural ability. If we look at the financial bubbles of the 1920s, we see unregulated financial and other market sectors bubble just as they did historically the preceding 60 years. In 1933, we crafted intelligent separation legislation (read: government regulation) via the Glass Steagall act, where commercial banks and investment (read: high risk) banks could not play in each other's sandbox. The depression of the 30s was not solved by 'market forces', but by government intervention, and one could make the argument that such 'socialist' ideas as the New Deal may have staved off another civil war (particularly when communist and fascist ideas had some foothold). Government involvement. Much of the industrial innovation of the those 80 years were based on requirements by the biggest consumer at the time: the government sector. Granted, much of it was military-industrial, but the communications sector went from ponies to telegraph to telephone in one lifespan, and subsidies in the form of land grants, exclusivity to markets, and purchases of massively overpriced technology drove part of the eventual success of those industries. I'm not making moral judgements about the development of weapons. The government paying for better ways to kill has some positives - advancements in physics, chemistry, geography, geology, meteorology, engineering and logistics all benefit all of us. And not being taken over by small threatening republics like Haiti, Panama or the Philippines - or billigerents more real, is a plus.

Jump through the next few decades, and you'll find We the People funded huge advances in aviation, nuclear weapons, nuclear power, land grants for mineral prospecting and extraction (coal, oil, uranium and most other metals, salt and water). We 'taxpayers' have subsidized agriculture since western europeans landed on this part of the pond. The village 'commons' was a group effort for group benefit. It's been bastardized by taxpayer-subsidized grazing for 150 years. Lack of government oversight allowed the excessive exploitation of all of those lands, leading to their environmental degradation. Did the farmers or ranchers care? No, why should they? They had not stake in the process -- just get while the gettin's good. And move on. No different than the environmental destruction of the eastern forests, when we had managed to clearcut most of the mid-Atlantic forests. Government regulation, land purchases, and government-funded 'jobs' recrafted a lot of that land we now call the Blue Ridge in my home state that few people realize just how barren and degraded it was only 80 years ago. New agricultural technology developed by federal funding (and implemented by federal welfare work programs) restored something that 'market forces' never could. Or would.

Flash forward through the last 50 years. The innovations that lead to the computer you are using was largely funded by your tax dollars. The Internet, the space program, solid-state electronics -- it's all been public&private collaboration. Too much regulation? Show me where, with an example, that happens. I can show you the results of the Goldwater revolution. Since his golden boy (Reagan) came into power, we've relied on 30 years of deficit spending that makes the excesses of Johnson, Nixon and Carter look like the puny $1 Tril debt they amassed. That's Reaganomics. Starting in 1981 and culminating in 1998, the neo-conservatives worked to dismantle that regulatory wall of Glass Steagall. Gramm (R-texas), Leach (R-iowa), and Bliley (R-Virginia) pulled out all of that nasty in-the-way regulation. The direct result was the short-term 'success' of the housing bubble in the late 90s and the financial fun we've endured over the last five years. And yet, the current administration doesn't have the spine to repeal the crap Gramm and Clinton signed into law. The current libertarian and tea party noise machine has shouted down moderates on both sides, claiming excess regulation is the blame for the stagnation, when it's quite the opposite. Without a sound financial sector, private enterprise won't ever be able to get realistic loans to fund development of any of this newer technology. Wall Street is running amok for short-term gains ala 1928 with no real brakes on the system. The same fools that helped craft this deregulated mess are in charge of our financial government arms (Fed, Treasury) and this president is following the same useless bailout policies of his predecessor. All of this is intertwined. Claiming deregulation and 'government needs to get out of the way' isn't going to magically make people behave differently. Government has a RIGHT and an obligation to be in the process, actively. Be in through rational regulation, grants and loans funding, or oversight. We see with this newest solar failure in California (how do you burn through a half-billion in two years with only 1000 people?) that the problem isn't too much regulation, but perhaps too little. The other half of the problem is that -- and here I agree with peterg11 -- this wasn't about deregulation but of a political connection for unfair advantage coupled with no oversight.

I do not believe in trickle-down economics. I have yet to see where it has EVER produced one job. I would rather have seen the politically-spent $450mil distributed among five, or 10 or 50 solar upstarts. When you gamble, you spread your risk and gain the most. The tactic is used in warfare through multiprong advances, in sustainable farming through field use rotation and mixed crop/livestock husbandry, even in forestry and ecology where a heterogenous mix of biota is far healthier than monoculture. This is Obama's Halliburton, and sets solar back years in terms of proper funding and development.

I'm under no illusion that anyone else here cares a whit about the historical underpinnings of government-supported (and since Lincoln and Wilson's times, taxpayer-supported) technology development and regulation. Hell, I doubt many even bother to read this far. But the facts argue against the simplistic ideas spouted every decade that regulation is killing business innovation in this country. This year, it is the Tea Party. Ten years ago, it was the Libertarians, before them, neo-cons and John Locke. And on down the line. What we quiet-voiced moderates that are center-left and center-right believe is in the balance of powers between government and the rest of the population. Of course, what we'd really like to have is term-limits, but like this Congress would ever concede such power -- or any before them.
Sep 16 2011 by Paul S Vail
Good morning Paul... I'm delighted that you've spent some time considering my earlier post. I'm not opposed to the government "encouraging" technology... I am absolutely opposed to this government micro-managing anything and perhaps technology most of all. I enjoyed reading your missle.
Sep 16 2011 by idahobill
lol. im using my iphone man, give me break.
Sep 16 2011 by erickg162
Just to clarify my comments in light of those from peterg11... Peter is absolutely correct when he says we don't want the government involved in ANY of the decision making relative to new technology. What we want is for them to get the heck out of the way!

In addition, I would like to see those government agencies that create and maintain bottle-necks to progress... removed from our governing process. Just a thought and a clarification.
Sep 15 2011 by idahobill
+1
Excellent comment. Sense when are poloticians capable of makeing sound technical judgements. They can't even balance a check book
Sep 15 2011 by peterg11
Government should only participate in R&D - not try to pick winners like Solyndra. The winners of the contest did not include items like this solar roadway as 1) it is not new 2) it is not technically feasible and 3) the technical aspects are based on wishes and not engineering or science.
Sep 15 2011 by russ1
I would love to invest in solar technology, but I’m just a college student. I would fund every solar project out there if I could but not every has that ability. that’s the problem with the free market not everyone can participate.
Sep 15 2011 by erickg162
don’t know man I think Israel Is a good place for a solar power plant and I know solar tech isn’t a new technology it’s been around since the early 1900’s I think . Israel does use solar water heaters over there buildings in fact is required by law for all newly constructed buildings to have solar water heaters, this law was put in place in the 1950’s. I think the failed solar plant test that you’re talking about was the Dead Sea Solar Plant Pond. it was an operation for a long time I don’t why they shut it down. But Israel did announce they were building another plant larger than the first, I think it’s currently under construction and it will be finished by 2013. Again I hate to sound like a broken record but these guys are and will be using standard solar panels 12- 15 % efficiency tops. I would like to see a plant with high effeminacy panels like the ones that are being developed in TX and CA
Sep 16 2011 by erickg162
And Erick, as so aptly pointed out by peterg, for god's sake, don't forsake your English skills. No one is going to take you seriously if you can't use the mother tongue. :)
Sep 16 2011 by Paul S Vail
Erick - This is not new - Real time tests have been done in Israel but then it dropped off the radar. I can not thing of a worse possible location for a solar cell unless it is in a basement with no windows. I don't know if the Israeli company filed for an international patent or not but I wouldn't be surprised if they haven't.
Sep 16 2011 by russ1
Which is probably why there has Been huge advances in solar cells. I don't disagree that solar is not ready. But that shouldn't be an argument against it, and I don't think govt. Should should saty out of the way. And I respect your opinion on the solar roads project, you probably know more then I do in this subject but it seem like GE and the department of transportation think theres some potential here. All stay positive
Sep 16 2011 by erickg162
Erick - Do you have any idea of the governments R&D efforts on solar over the years? Very substantial efforts and costs! The technical problems to be overcome to make solar more efficient and cost effective are not small.
Sep 16 2011 by russ1
Thanks for that patronizing advice peter but I don’t need to my homework. We need another way to power our world and I believe that solar is the best way. My thing is, we need to perfect the technology by funding R&D programs. That is what I meant when I said the free market doesn’t always work (R&D). Government support to those researchers that don’t have that baking of corporations. Once the technology is perfected then the free market will do its thing and people can make their choice. Now I’m not an engineer and IF Solar roads does not work will find another way implement the technology. Now like I said on my first post I agree with you on the problems in Washington but that’s whole other problem.
Sep 15 2011 by erickg162
No offense young college student Erick. With comments like yours. You need more college, or you will be broke your entire life. Here is some good advise. 1. Don't believe everything you here. 2. Before investing in anything do your own homework, don't rely on others advise. To good to be true usally is. 3. Beware of your sorrondings.
Sep 15 2011 by peterg11
That is not a problem with the free market Erick - that is the way life works. Good ideas usually make their way through.
Sep 15 2011 by russ1
Lets make one thing clear.
My comments are not negative at all on technology, or improvements. I'm only saying if you believe in this concept. Then invest, Stop waiting on Gov to save the world. As can be seen. Our crooks in Washington have other agendas. Those that have posted that our Gov needs to spend on this need to get a life, or a job and they can donate all their earnings to whom ever they wish.

Even the people doing this project are doing it for one reason.
To Make Money, Bragging rights are over rated.
Sep 15 2011 by peterg11
Here's a non-technical opinion... My sense is that much of the negative responses are prompted by the frustration of our times. Luckily, these are the kind of times that stir advances and inovations and... if (as I believe) this technology DOES have a future... I hope the negatives don't discourage this important work.
Sep 15 2011 by idahobill
+1
for those anti-solar post. you should know that in that there has allot of new break troughs in solartech that would make it a more feasable solution. You don’t believe me just do the research yourself, all you have to do is google it.
people should also stop buying into "my tax dollars" argument, politicians use that argument to get you votes. that money belongs to the government and its going to where ever the country need’s it to go, obviously it doesn’t always work out that way but that’s a whole other problem
I support this idea and one day I would like to drive on a road the produced energy, defiantly better than building massive solar farms outside the cities. Before that happens the government needs to fund R&D programs that are currently trying to improve the technology. Once we done that then we can spend the money to manufacturing solar cells and build solar roads.
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2010/02/caltech-plastic-solar-panels-nanowires-low-cost.php
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/11/cheap_3d_solar_cells_are_6x_more_efficient_work_underground.php

Sep 15 2011 by erickg162
+1
Like I said. Not one person on this entire post thread will caugh up and say I sent this company money as a investment. I just dare anyone to say they have and prove it. All a bunch of wind.
Sep 15 2011 by peterg11
tomorrow is a big day, the Eco2 crew are coming to Calgary to instruct us on how to apply for the $97 million in their coffers. I want to build 4 Homes one as a test home and 3 DC homes. On the fourth home I hope to install a solar driveway, why not? its a great place to produce power. The sole role for this driveway will be to power an EV and what more can you ask for.
Sep 15 2011 by ciaran
+1
The National Research council, Natural sciences and engineering research council, Natural resources Canada, Sustainable development technology Canada,WADE Canada and EcoEII. Maybe they addressed 20 people most were 2 per organisation so maybe 12-14 companies. then they packed up and went to Vancouver to do it again today. Good enough.
Sep 16 2011 by ciaran
Still would like an answer ciaran. Who exactly came to Calgary and how many Canadians did they address?
Sep 15 2011 by Very Small Idea Guy
Please answer my question. Who exactly are coming and how many Canadians will they be addressing?
Sep 15 2011 by Very Small Idea Guy
The insolation in Calgary is better than Germany and look what is going on there. you are right and this is the problem its to cheep to produce electricity in North America and that's why we should be taxing all fossil fuels and not taxing renewables.
Sep 15 2011 by ciaran
Who exactly are coming and how many Canadians will they be addressing? Given the insolation issues particularly in the winter when the sun just does not shine regardless of weather what percentage of rated wattage will the panels deliver? What is Calgary premium per watt i.e. if you can get watt for $2.00 at the equator for 6 hours a day what is the price for Calgary for 6 hours a day? (yeah I know you don't get 6 hours a day in the winter so have to overbuild and store tobe equivalent and figure those costs in to). Show us true numbers and they will speak for themselves.
Sep 15 2011 by Very Small Idea Guy
This DC Home is being designed to make its own power from roof top renewables and rely on a co-gen for back-up power and over runs, one of its duties will be to store unused heat in the ground under the garage and in winter this heat can be used to melt snow and keep the garage warm (something else an EV will likely require).
Sep 15 2011 by ciaran
Why not just put solar hot water in your driveway and on your roof top? Then in the winter, you can use the roof top solar to melt the snow and ice off your driveway solar. The lectricity or propane that you save from using solar hot water you can then use to charge the EV directly, or, fuel a propane fueled motor generator which can then charge up the EV? Best part of this approach is there's no R&D required! And it's cheaper!
Sep 15 2011 by WINDGRABBER
Companys and ideas come and go, so will this. Solar on roads is not feasable any time soon. Period.
Those that have minds that think this is cost effective and wanting my tax dollars to support this thought. Need to caugh up the money them selfs.
Come on Bank up REpuk!!! If you think this is so worth wild. Sends them your money and see what ya get in a life time. So put your money where you mouth is.

Just like my Idea going know where because no one will support it with money.

I really love Bad ideas and planning.

Peter
Sep 15 2011 by peterg11
Please forgive the poor formatting of my post above. If this medium supported html, it would be nicely manicured. ;) I had quoted your lines which are now inexorably lost in the midst of my reply. lol
Sep 15 2011 by REPuck
+1
Companys and ideas come and go, so will this. As very well may yours. http://challenge.ecomagination.com/home/Home-Heating-and-Cooling-system-run-by-C#comments Solar on roads is not feasable any time soon. Period. I don't think anyone is suggesting that this is going to happen over night. However, it is not going to get ANYWHERE without legitimate support and a feasible understanding that Rome wasn't built in a day. In its height, however, it was a glorious city. Those that have minds that think this is cost effective and wanting my tax dollars to support this thought. Need to caugh up the money them selfs. Again, your idea? Why do you have an idea posted here? Aren't you petitioning for funds? I would suggest that you'd probably be a little more successful in your own endeavor if you spent more time promoting your idea instead of demoting the idea of another. The 'taxpayers will then follow the fundamental process of a democracy and CHOOSE. Come on Bank up REpuk!!! If you think this is so worth wild. Sends them your money and see what ya get in a life time. So put your money where you mouth is. I have and if I had more to give, I would. In the absence of monetary support, I do whatever I can to promote the Solar Roadways concept far and wide across the internet and through my own site. Every little bit helps. At least I can feel comfortable with the fact that my time and energy was spent in support of a solution as opposed to the incessant negation of another effectively accomplishing squat. Just like my Idea going know where because no one will support it with money. I would suggest that your idea is going nowhere for entirely different reasons. Ask yourself, if Solar Roadways is such a terrible idea, then why has it garnered so much more support than yours? Oooops... I think I may have just touched on the real issue here. Nonetheless, your idea only has 20 or so supporters because you have done nothing to promote your idea. All I have to do is see how many supporters you have to ascertain that. I have been in web promotion for some time now and if you had put as much effort into promoting your idea to the appropriate demographics as you have here to negate the Solar Roadways concept, I assure you that you would have more than 20 supporters. Why is Solar Roadways receiving funding? It surely isn't because Scott got his church and family members to come to this site and vote for him. This isn't a school fundraiser selling chocolate bars. this is the real world and if no one KNOWS ABOUT your idea, how the hell do you expect them to support it? Do you expect them to dream about your idea and then have a faerie lead them to the right url to affect voting? Let's get realistic about this. We all know that solar is not cost-effective for the short-sighted, money driven individual. However, it certainly can not be argued with even an ounce of validity that the Solar Roadways concept would not creat countless jobs bolstering our economy as well as pay for itself in the long run. The only problem is that people like you and, unfortunately, many people in our government are lost after they hear "in the long run." "What?! No instant gratification? Well, screw this idea. Who cares if it would effectively completely sever our dependence on coal and oil as well as begin to clean up our environment.... in the long run." Our planet is in the position it is in right now because no one ever thinks about the long run. It is always about what is in it for me, how much can I profit and how soon. This is a terrible business model as effectively displayed by our current economic debacle. So, go ahead and continue to be a typical human bent on instant gratification. Just a bit of advice, though. Try promoting your idea a little more than demoting another idea. You actually might see a return from your efforts. I wish you the best in your endeavors.
Sep 15 2011 by REPuck
+1

 

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